séance du Mercredi 04 Sep 2013

Aratchouf a écrit:

Oummih a écrit:

Does anyone know if/when an Investigation will be launched into the activities of RISMA hotels regarding their sale of Alcohol to Moroccan citizens?

Ya oueddi quel "alcohol" et quel "Investigation" wella elkhaouar ?!
Est-ce que tu te crois en Suisse ou en Suède ?!  

Ne sais-tu pas qu'au Maroc, on se bat encore pour mettre en place un "système de justice" digne de ce nom ?!  

Et concernant la vente d'alcool et l'Islam, ne crois-tu pas qu'il vaut mieux aux musulmans qu'ils aient le choix et qu'ils fassent l'effort de s'abstenir volontairement d'en consommer plutôt que de faire disparaitre toute tentation de devant leur petites personnes ?
Autrement, comment leur attribuer le mérite !
C'est comme quelqu'un qui fait le ramadan mais qui de toute manière n'a rien à manger...même s'il le voulait.

Et enfin, c'est quoi cette fixation sur Risma ?
Ne connais-tu pas le proverbe : quand le sage montre la lune, l'idiot regarde le doigt...

@ tous
Désolé du hors sujet mais devant les multiples récidives de Oummih, je n'ai pu m'empêcher

You are asking Excellent questions and making terrific points. I apologize to the forum, as this is slightly off topic, but does address a point that is pertinent to the Moroccan exchange, and that is investors confidence. I will address each of the wonderful points you raised and am very happy to take this discussion off the forum so as to not subject anyone who has no interest in the rule of law or legality or the source of their money if this forum is not an appropriate forum for this discussion.

I believe that Morocco has made a lot of progress in terms of rule of law. I would like this progress to continue. For example, renting an apartment just 10 years ago was for the truly brave, now, so long as you pay your tax - one month out of 12 - and have your tenant sign a contract, you are relatively safe. The point is, progress is made only when the envelope is pushed and when people demand it. Just because many believe that Justice only in name exists in Morocco is no reason to accept it. Why not work together to hold the judges and courts accountable for bettering the lives of Moroccans by implementing and enforcing the rule of law? We can all agree that what sets apart successful countries from third world banana republics is not the abundance of natural resources, rather it is respect for the rule of law and the ability of the government to exert its sovereignty upon those who would question it, both externally and internally.

In terms of your point on whether a person has the right to decide for themselves whether they want to drink or fast Ramadan, I could not agree with you more. This is actually my point. Real Islam does not force people to adhere to it. However, I am open in this regard. I am simply looking for consistency. Either the current law, with all of its clear flaws is respected and all Moroccan Muslims prohibited from distributing or drinking alcohol, or the law needs to be changed. I don't have a problem with completely legalizing the consumption of Alcohol in Morocco, as it is already de-facto accepted as almost legal. If you go to any supermarket that sells alcohol or walk by any bar in Morocco, you will quickly realize that a vast majority of those in the bars and those purchasing the alcohol are in fact Moroccan "Muslims". As for Ramadan, I agree with you again, the state should not be in the business of enforcing morality or religion, as it violates one of the basic tenets of Islam, and that is that Religion should be a matter of personal acceptance. In Islam, as you know, people must be convinced themselves of its merit and cannot/should not be forced to comply with religious edicts. By that same token, if you are forcing people to not drink Alcohol and fast Ramadan, how come we are not forcing people to pray? Isn't prayer much more important? Ultimately, I want to see rule of law become a reality in Morocco for everyone. It is only by extending the rule of law to everyone that people will not continue to blindly push all of their wealth into land and real estate properties. Without the protection of the rule of law, real economic expansion is not possible, as people will not risk their assets without the assurance of some fundamental protections. 

As for my fixation on Risma. I have nothing against Risma per se. However I am very much against what Risma represents. Risma represents the worst aspects of Colonialism. Risma is primarily owned by a foreign entity. The value given to Risma, is money that is taken from the people of a Moroccan Muslim country. CIMR is heavily vested in RISMA. CIMR is a retirement mechanism. There are many Muslims who buy and sell stocks on the MASI who choose not to purchase the shares of companies that sell Alcohol. This is their right. They do not want their clean money to be mixed with, "dirty" money. CIMR is a government owned and operated entity. If it was a private entity, it would have the right to do as it chose. As a result of being government owned, it should be accountable to the people who's money it invests on their behalf! I do not want my CIMR funds to be invested in companies that sell Alcohol. Risma has hotels that sell Alcohol. CIMR, as you know is a fund that contributes to retirement savings. I want you to think about your mother and/or father and tell me if they would be ok with using money in their golden years that were derived from the sale of Alcohol? The answer for a majority of people on this forum is a clear and undeniable NO. Then you simply add insult to injury when you allow RISMA owned hotels in Morocco to sell Alcohol to Moroccan Muslims in an open way, in clear violation of Moroccan law.

The entire issue needs to be examined on multiple levels. Either you legalize Alcohol and remove bans on fasting during Ramadan and thus solve the issue that way, or you need to have CIMR divest from RISMA, or you have to have the Authorities enforce the laws that already exist inside hotels owned by RISMA that are on Moroccan soil. This is not unreasonable. It is simply a matter of doing what is right.

Does it make sense now?

Sissa a écrit:

Oummih a écrit:

Does anyone know if/when an Investigation will be launched into the activities of RISMA hotels regarding their sale of Alcohol to Moroccan citizens?

I am also curious about Mediaco. I am not sure I understand what the bottom line of the dispute between the new and former management means?

If all shares are bought out, has an offer price been determined? What is the worst case scenario with MEDIACO?

Have a great day all!

Rappel règlement : 


- II - II - 2 (Bis) : De même, le forum n'accepte pas la diffusions d'information , sur le forum central, cataloguées comme " rumeurs " si ces informations interviennent à la veille de périodes définis (annonces de résultats, annonces stratégiques, communiqué, offre publique, etc... ). Tout matraquage d'une valeur destiné à influencer dans n'importe quel sens la prise de décision de notre respectable communauté dans le choix de leur investissements est interdit.
Toute cible avancée sans argumentaire (graphique soit il ou fondamentale) pourra être modérée. En cas de récidive, ce qui 'apparentait à un non respect d'une décision du modérateur, le fautif encourt une sanction suivant le règlement approuvé par lui lors de son enregistrement. Les phrases ou mots imagés (train, navette, explosion, descente aux enfers ...)  sont considérés comme des messages incitatifs ayant attrait à influencer le regard d'autrui ou faire paniquer les investisseurs. 

Are you kidding me? How in the world am I trying to influence the price of the stock? I assume you are referring to Risma and not my question about Mediaco. In any event, I am done talking about RISMA, and do not want to violate any rules of the forum and apologize if my comments were taken as an inducement to sell or buy.

Auditeur a écrit:

Au passage, je salue les personnes qui m'ont adressé un message de remerciement et qui ont exprimé leur reconnaissance envers une valeur que j'ai recommandé, il n'ya pas même pas une semaine et qui affiche une performance year to date de 100%.

Vous le savez bien sur, alors conserver la, car il serait difficile de revenir à la charge et récupérer les quantités liquidées aux prix bradés.

si tu fais une recherche sur mes messages tu trouveras que je suis le premier avant meme les Sociétés de bourse qui recommandait risma , elle etait à 127 DH.

Elu18 a écrit:

Bonjour tout le monde et bonne plus value pour tous.
Avis d'experts tel Auditeur, j'ai une très très très petite somme d'argent (40.000,00 Dhs) et je voulais l'investir à la bourse s. sur quelle valeur me conseiller et merci d'avance.

juste pour information, moi je ne suis pas un expert et ma reputation au sein du forum est negative. Ceci, ne me permet pas de se prononcer et avancer des recommandations que ce soit d'achat ou à la vente. cela étant dit, vu que vous vous interesser à cette valeur, je peux vous proposer Risma, mais à condition de la conserver sur le moyen abstarction faite des aléas qu'elle va enregsitrée que ce soit à la hausse ou la baisse au moins d'ici fin mars.
le taux de croissance serait inchallah considerable.
walahou a3lam...

Google a écrit:

Auditeur a écrit:

Au passage, je salue les personnes qui m'ont adressé un message de remerciement et qui ont exprimé leur reconnaissance envers une valeur que j'ai recommandé, il n'ya pas même pas une semaine et qui affiche une performance year to date de 100%.

Vous le savez bien sur, alors conserver la, car il serait difficile de revenir à la charge et récupérer les quantités liquidées aux prix bradés.

si tu fais une recherche sur mes messages tu trouveras que je suis le premier avant meme les Sociétés de bourse qui recommandait risma , elle etait à 127 DH.

 wa rak m3alem et rien à dire.
iwa qu'elle est à la cible que tu peux nous avancer Google; Bien sure en s'appuyant sur un graphique à poster...

Oummih a écrit:

.....................

Does it make sense now?

I appreciate your "Ijtihad", but sorry, it always doesn't really make sens for me !
Unfortunately, this is not the appropriate place for such discussion so i prefere to abstain and not to disturb anyone.

Si oumnih. On doit pas acheter risma a cause de l alcool aussi les banques a cause de riba et même les autres boites. On sait pas d' ou il ramènent et investent leurs capitaux. Donc on doit fermer cette bourse ;)

Aratchouf a écrit:

Oummih a écrit:

.....................

Does it make sense now?

I appreciate your "Ijtihad", but sorry, it always doesn't really make sens for me !
Unfortunately, this is not the appropriate place for such discussion so i prefere to abstain and not to disturb anyone.

 it's good for you and for us
so don't disturb again this forum please.
kind regard's:lol!:

annassoun a écrit:

Si oumnih. On doit pas acheter risma a cause de l alcool aussi les banques a cause de riba et même les autres boites. On sait pas d' ou il ramènent et investent leurs capitaux. Donc on doit fermer cette bourse ;)

I actually do not purchase bank stocks, nor do I purchase Insurance stocks, nor of course, stocks that sell anything that is Haram. I am not alone in my views. I did a lot of research before heavily investing in a number of stocks on the MASI.

Essentially, I concluded that investing in the MASI is halal, as it is "Tijara" - you are not guaranteeing returns and as we have all experienced over the past few years, there is the very real risk of losing money on your investment. However, a key ingredient is that you, as an investor take full responsibility for and exert due diligence when it comes to where your money goes. Consequently, in the same way that I do not take interest on my bank accounts, or rent property to those who sell Alcohol, I cannot invest in Bank stocks or insurance stocks.

That having been said, I respectfully disagree with the contention that there are not viable investment options on the MASI that fulfill the "investors with integrity" requirement. 

Without naming these stocks and being accused of influencing investors, I will simply say that there are a number of manufacturers on the MASI, that have done relatively well, there is also the Agro sector that has seen dramatic increases in valuation over the past few months and of course other companies that have people of integrity running them that have done extremely well.

Ultimately, I was simply trying to raise a point on the rule of law, ways to improve the appeal of the MASI to "halal investors" and the rights of those who are CIMR subscribers to not have their retirement funds invested in a way that to many would represent an unacceptable source of revenue - unfortunately, I stood accused of trying to manipulate investor choices! Consequently, in keeping with my desire to not offend anyone, I will not bring up the subject again on this forum.

God Bless all of you and I wish all of you the very best inshallah!

he personne ne parle de la SNEP
Comme je le disais, fini l'effet annonce et rien de concret. Juste une bousculade devant la porte pour hisser le cours à un niveau pour laisser courir les benefices.

son tour est loin d'arrivé. Alors, ne précipiter pas et conserver vos tickers.

Oummih a écrit:

annassoun a écrit:

Si oumnih. On doit pas acheter risma a cause de l alcool aussi les banques a cause de riba et même les autres boites. On sait pas d' ou il ramènent et investent leurs capitaux. Donc on doit fermer cette bourse ;)

I actually do not purchase bank stocks, nor do I purchase Insurance stocks, nor of course, stocks that sell anything that is Haram. I am not alone in my views. I did a lot of research before heavily investing in a number of stocks on the MASI.

Essentially, I concluded that investing in the MASI is halal, as it is "Tijara" - you are not guaranteeing returns and as we have all experienced over the past few years, there is the very real risk of losing money on your investment. However, a key ingredient is that you, as an investor take full responsibility for and exert due diligence when it comes to where your money goes. Consequently, in the same way that I do not take interest on my bank accounts, or rent property to those who sell Alcohol, I cannot invest in Bank stocks or insurance stocks.

That having been said, I respectfully disagree with the contention that there are not viable investment options on the MASI that fulfill the "investors with integrity" requirement. 

Without naming these stocks and being accused of influencing investors, I will simply say that there are a number of manufacturers on the MASI, that have done relatively well, there is also the Agro sector that has seen dramatic increases in valuation over the past few months and of course other companies that have people of integrity running them that have done extremely well.

Ultimately, I was simply trying to raise a point on the rule of law, ways to improve the appeal of the MASI to "halal investors" and the rights of those who are CIMR subscribers to not have their retirement funds invested in a way that to many would represent an unacceptable source of revenue - unfortunately, I stood accused of trying to manipulate investor choices! Consequently, in keeping with my desire to not offend anyone, I will not bring up the subject again on this forum.

God Bless all of you and I wish all of you the very best inshallah!

]Pour appréciation de son comportement et des escales.

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]